The Great Depression and the Arts
A Unit of Study for Grades 8-12
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Special Committee on Un-American Propaganda Activities in the United States
House of Representatives 1938
Hallie Flanagan
- Hallie Flanagan was selected in 1935 by Harry Hopkins to head the Federal Theatre Project as part of the New Deal's Works Progress Administration. In the following excerpt, she is questioned by Chairman Martin Dies (Texas) and Congressmen Joe Starnes (Alabama) and J. Parnell Thomas (New Jersey).
Chairman Dies. Now, will you just tell us briefly the duties of your position?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes, Congressman Dies. Since August 29, 1935, I have been concerned with combating un-American inactivity.
Chairman Dies. No. We will get to that in a minute.
Mrs. Flanagan. Please listen. I said I am combating un-American inactivity.
Chairman Dies. Inactivity?
Mrs. Flanagan. I refer to the inactivity of professional men and women; people who, at that time when I took office, were on the relief rolls, and it was my job to expend the appropriation laid aside by congressional vote for the relief of the unemployed as it related to the field of the theater, and to set up projects wherever in any city 25 or more of such professionals were found on the relief rolls.
Mr. Starnes. Now, there is another statement you have made here, that some of the plays that were put out by the Federal Theatre Project are propagandistic or that they breed class consciousness — is that true or untrue? Not all of them, because the testimony is that 924 plays have been produced, and only 26, as I recall, were in question. Let us confine ourselves to those that are in question.
Mrs. Flanagan. I do want to go into the matter of the 26 plays as much as this committee will allow me to do. But before I go into that I would like to say that I could not say that we never did a propaganda play. But I should like to go to the actual definition of "propaganda."
Propaganda, after all, is education. It is education focused on certain things. For example, some of you gentlemen have doubtless seen "One-Third of the Nation"; and I certainly would not sit here and say that that was not a propaganda play. I think in the discussion yesterday the word "propaganda" was used in this connotation only — that any play which was propaganda was necessarily propaganda for communism.
I should like to say very truthfully that to the best of my knowledge we have never done plays which was propaganda for communism, but we have done plays which were propaganda for democracy, propaganda for better housing —
Mr. Thomas. I think you ought to develop that point right there. You said that some plays were propaganda for democracy. What do you mean by that? Propaganda for what forms of democracy and what particular things? Like housing, as you just mentioned?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. What others?
Mrs. Flanagan. I would say — shall we go into a discussion of democracy?
Mr. Thomas. No. Just name some of the things that the Federal Theatre Project has put out propaganda plays for.
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes. Well, let us say first, "One-Third of the Nation." In that the definite propaganda was for better housing for American citizens.
Mr. Thomas. What others?
Mrs. Flanagan. I would say that in general, Mr. Thomas, "The Living Newspaper" would be propaganda for —
Mr. Thomas. But you are not answering the question. You mentioned housing?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Mr. Thomas. How about "Power"?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes. I would say that "Power" was propaganda for a better understanding of the derivation and the scientific meaning of power and for its wide use.
Mr. Thomas. Was it for public ownership of power?
Mrs. Flanagan. That portrayed as effectively as possible both sides of that controversy, and quoted both sides.
Mr. Starnes. If there are no communistic activities on your projects, we want to know it. If there are, we think that fact should be made public. And if the facts are made public, we feel that surely you, as the directing head, will take the necessary remedial action to rid the projects of such un-American activities.
Mrs. Flanagan. You are quite right.
Mr. Thomas. I have here the script of "Injunction Granted." The last part of the script is all devoted to a criticism of the legislature in the State of New Jersey. It has to do with the Workers Alliance coming into the halls of the legislature in the State of New Jersey and sitting there and taking over the government. Do you think that that is the proper kind of propaganda to put out through the Federal Theatre Project?
Mrs. Flanagan. I think that that episode was necessary in the development of a study of labor in litigation.
Mr. Thomas. This latter part has nothing to do with labor in litigation. It has to do with the Workers Alliance' criticism of the State legislature.
Mrs. Flanagan. It was headline news of that period which had a direct relevance to the theater. You see, in the Living Newspaper everything is factual. The records from which any living newspaper is taken are always open to all of you and absolutely open to anyone. And I think it is rather a remarkable fact, gentlemen, that in the 3 years of the existence of this project, the Living Newspaper, that we have done that, not one allegation had been made that the news were untrue. Nobody has ever proved that we have ever misquoted a person or misquoted a quotation.
Mr. Starnes. The statement has been made in the testimony that you are in sympathy with communistic doctrines.
Mrs. Flanagan. Congressman Starnes, I am an American, and I believe in American democracy. I believe the Works Progress Administration is one great bulwark of that democracy. I believe the Federal Theater, which is one small part of that large pattern, is honestly trying in every possible way to interpret the best interests of the people of this democracy. I am not in sympathy with any other form of government in this country.
Mr. Starnes. That is your statement. You are absolutely not in sympathy with communism. Now, have you, as Director of this National Art Project, produced productions for the purpose of promoting class hatred, we will say?
Mrs. Flanagan. I have not.
Mr. Starnes. Do you recognize only the Workers' Alliance as the bargaining agency among employees on your project?
Mrs. Flanagan. Certainly not. We have something like 24 theatrical unions that we are dealing with constantly on this project. It is one of the most complicated ramifications which I will go into if you wish.
Mr. Starnes. No, I am trying to make this thing specific because specific statements were made.
Mrs. Flanagan. I realize that. I have specific answers if you want to go into them.
Mr. Starnes. The question was raised as to whether or not there are Communists on your project. We understand, and we know, that no restrictions have been placed on your employing people who might believe in a communistic form of government. We understand that. And unquestionably you have, according to the testimony, Communists working on the job, but the thing the committee is interested in is the question of communistic activity on the project. Do you know of your own knowledge, personal knowledge, of any communistic activities that are being carried on there, in other words, the promulgation of communistic doctrines and theory, the recruiting of soldiers of Loyalist Spain, the dissemination of communistic literature or the collection of funds for the Workers' Alliance and for the Communist Party on project time?
Mrs. Flanagan. Congressman Starnes, those are opposed to the administrative restriction, copies of which are in this brief.
Mr. Starnes. You are opposed to it, and you know nothing of it personally, but you can't deny, of course, of your own personal knowledge, such is the case, but if it is the case, it is without your knowledge and consent?
Mrs. Flanagan. Right.
Chairman Dies. Mrs. Flanagan, I want to ask you one or two questions. What, in your opinion, as the director of the Federal Theaters is the primary purpose to be kept in mind in the production of plays? Is it amusement? I am not talking about the relief angle now.
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes, sir.
Chairman Dies. I am talking about the selection of material in the production of plays. What principal objective do you keep in mind, amusement, or, on the other hand, the teaching of a particular idea or the presentation of facts or material in a way to leave a definite impression?
Mrs. Flanagan. I am glad you asked that question, because it is an important one. The basis of the choice of plays is that we have always believed on the Federal Theatre Project that any theater supported by Federal funds should do no plays of a subversive, or cheap, or shoddy, or vulgar, or outworn, or imitative nature, but only such plays as the Government could stand behind in a program which is national in scope and regional in emphasis and democratic in American attitude.
Mr. Thomas. Democratic!
Mrs. Flanagan. Not democratic in the narrow sense.
Chairman Dies. Then in a sense primarily it is for amusement; isn't that true?
Mrs. Flanagan. The second objective, if I may go on, is wide diversity. I think we should do plays of as great diversity as the geographic range and the varieties of our people. I can't say just entertainment or education, Congressman Dies.
Chairman Dies. You are not in a position to say whether the primary purpose
Mrs. Flanagan. A good play must always entertain the audience.
Chairman Dies. That is the primary purpose of it?
Mrs. Flanagan. The primary purpose of a good play is to entertain, isn't it?
Chairman Dies. Entertain?
Mrs. Flanagan. It must also and can also often teach. It can inculcate religious principles. It can entertain simply if it is a musical comedy. Think of the verities of things that it can do to train people in the great field of the classics.
Chairman Dies. It can be used as a vehicle, in other works, to impart to an audience certain ideas either along moral lines or along social lines or economic lines; isn't that a fact?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Chairman Dies. And in the production of these plays, while you have kept in mind primarily the objective of entertainment, you have considered it your duty likewise to convey such, we will say, instruction or to impart ideas along social and economic lines; isn't that true?
Mrs. Flanagan. I would like to answer that rather fully, because it is an important point. The list of the plays that we have done is open to you, and the proof of the types of plays that we do can be found there. Over 500 of the 924 plays are plays by tested American authors which have had previous successes on Broadway. They are plays of the great body of American—
Chairman Dies. Am I not right?
Mrs. Flanagan. I really would like to go on — I know the bell rang or something, but I really would like to get this in. That is the major field, and then there are also musical comedies, because they use great numbers of people, you see there are also children's plays which we have built up as a great specialty, chiefly fairy tales, not with the connotation mentioned, and then we have also done dance dramas, and we have placed great emphasis on the classics. We have done plays by Euripides, Plautus, Marlowe, Shakespeare, Beaumont, and Fletcher, Lope de Vega, Moliere, Sheridan, Labiche, Ibsen, Wilde, Shaw and O'Neill. And I have written into the record a list of the very distinguished dramatists whose plays we have produced. Therefore —
Chairman Dies. I asked you if you think the theater should be used for the purpose of conveying ideas along social and economic lines.
Mrs. Flanagan. I think that is one justifiable reason for the existence of the theater.
Chairman Dies. Do you think that the Federal Theater should be used for the purpose, for one purpose of conveying ideas along social, economic or political lines?
Mrs. Flanagan. I would hesitate on the political. So far as I know we have never stressed —
Chairman Dies. Eliminate political, upon social and economic lines.
Mrs. Flanagan. I think it is one logical, reasonable, and I might say imperative thing for our theater to do.
Chairman Dies. And for educational purposes; is that right?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Chairman Dies. In other words, you believe it is correct to use the Federal Theater to educate people, audiences, along social or economic lines is that correct?
Mrs. Flanagan. Among other things; yes. I have pointed out to the committee that only 10 percent of the plays that we do —
Chairman Dies. I understand. Do you not also think that since the Federal Theatre Project is an agency of the Government and that all of our people support it through their tax money, people of different classes, different races, different religions, some who are workers, some who are businessmen, don't you think that that being true that no play should ever be produced which undertakes to portray the interests of one class to the disadvantage of another class, even though that might be accurate, even though factually there may be justification normally for that, yet because of the very fact that we are using taxpayer's money to produce plays, do you not think it is questionable whether it is right to produce plays that are biased in favor of one class against another?
Mrs. Flanagan. We are not doing plays to stir up class hatred.
Chairman Dies. Then this Federal Theater is a very powerful vehicle of expression isn't it, and of propaganda, because as you say, it reaches 25,000,000 people. It therefore can be used or abused.
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Chairman Dies. With serious consequences, can it not?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes, sir.
Chairman Dies. And do you know of any way in which it could be more seriously abused than it would be to portray, as I said a few moments ago, one class, putting them at an advantage over another class?
Mrs. Flanagan. I have been giving a long list of illustrations of the fact that we do not so do.
Chairman Dies. What is the objective of the play, what impression is it designed to bring in the mind of the audience—take the play "Power"—that public ownership is a good thing?
Mrs. Flanagan. I think the first thing the play does is to make you understand more about power, where it comes from, and how it has evolved, about its whole historical use.
Chairman Dies. All right.
Mrs. Flanagan. I think it also does speak highly for the public ownership of power.
Chairman Dies. Let us just take that one instance. We will assume, for the sake of argument that maybe the public ownership of power is a desirable thing, but do you not think it improper that the Federal Theater, using the taxpayers' money, should present a play to the audience which champions one side of a controversy?
Mrs. Flanagan. No, Congressman Dies; I do not consider it improper. I have just said that I felt that in a small percentage of our plays, and pointed out that it is 10 percent that do hold a brief for a certain cause in accord with general forward-looking tendencies, and I say —
Chairman Dies. Who is to determine what is a forward-looking tendency?
Mrs. Flanagan. Why, our play policy board chooses these plays.
Chairman Dies. They are to determine the question as to what is a forward-looking tendency. They therefore would have the idea that public ownership of utilities was a forward-looking tendency?
Mrs. Flanagan. Also, with the idea, Congressman Dies, that first the play must be good, it must have the power to hold people in the audience.
Chairman Dies. I am assuming that, but we are confining ourselves to the proposition— take "Power" — you say that your policy board must first pass on this, isn't that right?
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes.
Chairman Dies. Then your policy board approves the question of public ownership of utilities. Then you think that because they approve the principle of public ownership of utilities, you believe it is proper that the Federal theaters shall exhibit a play in which it champions the right to public ownership, do you not?
Mrs. Flanagan. I think so.
Chairman Dies. So that it comes down to this, as a correct statement, does it not, that with reference to the plays themselves you can say unequivocally that none of them were communistic?
Mrs. Flanagan. Right.
Chairman Dies. In other words, we heard considerable testimony which forms an important part of this, that numerous people working on the project were Communist. We got that from one or two who are members of the Communist party themselves. We got it from their own signatures, and statements that they were Communists, and received testimony that Communist literature was disseminated through the premises during project time, that they were printed on the bulletin board until this investigation began and it stopped, that meetings of the Communists units were held on project time in the premises, and other testimony. I am just citing you some of the high lights. Now, that is the material fact involved here, so to whether that was done.
Mrs. Flanagan. I think you must be confusing some of our testimony, because I have read it very carefully, because I have not found a single witness brought up before us that said he was a Communist.
Chairman Dies. Before us?
Mrs. Flanagan. Before you.
Chairman Dies. Well, Mr. DeSolo said he was a Communist.
Mrs. Flanagan. But he is not on the Federal Theatre Project.
Chairman Dies. He is on the Writers Project.
Mrs. Flanagan. Yes; but not our project.
Chairman Dies. You are dealing with the Federal Theatre Project.
Mrs. Flanagan. Because that is what I have jurisdiction over.
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The Great Depression and the Arts